In case you missed it yesterday, I explained these posts thusly: I decided to jot down a few notes on each episode based on my memory alone. Max pitched in a few times, but for the most part these thoughts/notes are mine and based on nothing but my memory and knowledge of specific episodes of Doctor Who.
This is the second of three posts. Season Five went up yesterday, and seven will arrive tomorrow! I know, the anticipation is insane.
General notes:
- HUMANITY is a major theme. As the Doctor gets more God-like, he draws a thicker line between himself and the human race. Episodes that feature this theme are starred. *
- Any two-part episodes are considered as one unit. Their story line is split up, but their themes continue to develop and character arcs stretch from the beginning of one to the end of another
- We consider CHARACTERS over "Real-world" circumstances (for instance, rather than considering the fact that Tennant stepped in because Eccleston had to leave, we would look at Nine's departure in the storyline, and Ten's arrival.)
- Memory/forgetting is another important theme, in both Doctor Who and Peter Pan
- Amy and Rory apparently on a Honeymoon type trip
- Doctor goes back in time to deal with the child version of an adult
- sharks are the best animal.
- Sleeping Beauty motif,
- The psychic paper breaks after he tells too big of a lie-- THAT HE'S A RESPONSIBLE ADULT
- America. Doctor pulls shenanigans--200 years have gone by for him.
- When did Rory and Amy get a house/settle down into it?
- River shows up again! (Now we know how she got into jail.)
- When does River find out who she is/who her parents are?
- Introduction of the Silence, question of whether Amy is or isn't pregnant
- Drinking wine--she doesn't think she's pregnant.
- The Doctor drinks again and promptly spits it out, again.
- Doctor faces death as though it WOULD BE A RATHER BIG ADVENTURE.
- Why does he make Amy, Rory and River witness the death?
- Rory almost dies. Again. (role reversal, Amy is the nurse)
- Pirates are a throwback to the classic series
- Team work, both in the past and on a spaceship.
"The Doctor's Wife"*
- The Goddess of crying.
- Impossibility defied
- Outside of the universe
- More Timelords?
- TARDIS given a body
- Amy leaves Rory behind twice, but it's not really him.
- One "death"
- FEAR of growing old--aging is a negative process. (We see this again in "The Girl Who Waited")
- Rory sympathizes with the flesh b/c of his time as a centurion
- Posession over "her" Doctor--Amy thinks she knows which is real and which is flesh
- Knowing SHE herself is flesh at this point--changes perspective?
- Clear up questions about mythology behind the Flesh, don't you have to be conscious to control it? how does Amy's avatar work?
- Amy gets another avatar in "Let's Kill Hitler"
- Amy is Flesh. He tries to calm her down before changing her
- REALITY VERSUS PERCEIVED REALITY
- Continued Sleeping Beauty theme, Amy awakening as she is about to give birth. In the traditional fairytale she gives birth in her sleep and it is her infants that suckle the cursed thistle or prickle in her finger, loosening it out, which awakens her.
- More questions than answers.
- Throws a FIT at River "How goes the day?"
- Why COULDN'T she help?
- She couldn't interfere with her timeline too much, it would eliminate her present self. (Max answered my question).
- Rory and Amy as parents, River turns into Jane, Amy and the Doctor's relationship markedly changes again.
- "You always worry about me." but Peter never worries about Wendy...does he?
- Another name argument--Pond vs. Williams
- Does the Doctor REALLY not know who River is? Who Amy is?
- Amy gets another avatar
- Rory and Amy spend an entire summer just waiting for the Doctor. Again.
- River's origin story
- Nightmares, obviously.
- Changelings (Lost boys)
- Do George and the Doctor have anything in common?
- Amy changes, but Rory doesn't
- Nightlights
- Amy waits, finally for too long.
- both men fail her, she "saves" herself (twice)
- attitude change btwn old and young Amy
- Nightlight, Tinkerbell (isn't there a reference to the light on the top of the TARDIS?)
- 36 years... how old is Wendy in "When Wendy Grows Up"?
- Season 6's "The Satan Pit"?
- Gods Vs. Timelords
- "Complex" as double entendre--both the psychological problem and the building itself.
- Rory's door as an exit (what does he believe in?)
- What is in the Doctor's Room?
- What would be in Peter's? Wendy's? AMY'S?
- Belief systems. Amy's story line is on constant loop.
- The Doctor and Amy's continued arc of trust and the Doctor's insistence that Amy needs to stop trusting him now, stop believing in him, a marketed difference to him telling her to trust him completely in "The Time of Angels"/"Flesh And Stone".
- Tinkerbell--I do believe in fairies
- Doctor gives Amy and Rory "their dreams" to keep them safe. House, car, etc. Essentially his way of telling them to grow up.
"Closing Time"*
- Back to Craig and Sophie--the only other time he was without Amy. (Max added: not true, will bicker with you over this later)
- TOY SECTION at the store. Clear child-like exuberance in the atmosphere.
- "I speak baby" Of course you do. Incredible parenting skills; hint of the Doctor having had children before (classic series--his first companion is his Granddaughter). Empathy with children and babies over adults.
- Releasing Craig and Sophie from their normal human lives.
- Bromance, which is what eventually saves them from the Cybermen.
- The Doctor watching Amy and Rory from afar, incredibly close, but refrains from interacting. "Looking into the inside of the nursery", from the outside looking in, much like Peter did once he went to his true home, but was shocked to find his parents had long since had a second child and had closed their window (is that canon? Or only from Hook. Fact check needed.--Max)
- Really REALLY need to watch this one again
- Revisiting Lake Silencio, the Tardis blue "death" invitations also double as Wedding invitations, to a degree. River, already in jail, has already seen it occur and married (?) hence her knowing smile to the Doctor's original invitation. ( Max is speculative). However her anger at the younger doctor back in "The Day of The Moon" for making her watch that all again (and his innocence in the affair, being invited too ) (after revisiting that episode knowing she knows what happens) seems to negate that...need to revisit.
- Doctor's reaction to River calling everyone to help (embarrassment is paralleled in "The Angels Take Manhattan" with the wrist)
- Amy forgets Rory again, he doesn't forget her.
- (You sure Jen? She due to her wall-crack universe powers that have her remember all her lives and alternate selves, vaguely remembers him, but draws him completely incorrectly, like a male model. It is a marketed improvement over when he was erased by time, but even then she still remembered him a bit in that she would at various times cry and "feel sad" despite not knowing why, especially present in "Vincent And The Doctor". )
- (FINE! We can delve deeper into this later, after I punch you.)
--Jen (and Max)
Okay, few things here. First of all, under "The Impossible Astronaut" and "Day of the Moon" (also bleeding into "The Wedding of River Song"), there's the issue of River knowing who she is/who her parents are. River's timeline is probably more wibbly wobbly than even the Doctor's, so most of this is going to be speculation. I'm pretty sure we can assume that there is a small portion of River's timeline that is spent outside of jail (i.e., before she shot the Doctor). That aside (mostly because I just remembered this), I think I remember hearing that she had her memory of shooting the doctor altered because of the brainwashing. This kind of makes sense from her reaction to seeing the Doctor die, as she storms after the astronaut, attempting to shoot herself. As for why he makes Amy, Rory, and River witness, I think it's the beginning of him attempting to erase knowledge of himself from the universe (we see that a lot in the beginning of season 7). Also, it's a fixed point in time, and he already knows what happens at that point (timey wimey), so he HAS to invite them.
ReplyDeleteBack to the wibbly wobbly, I believe that the version of River in "A Good Man Goes to War" is one of the younger versions. When the Doctor comes for her in the beginning, she knows she can't be there, maybe because a younger version of her will have been there (timey wimey).
Moving on to "The Rebel Flesh" and "The Almost People". I think as far as whether you need to be conscious to control the flesh, the answer is yes. However, the way it seems to work is that it projects your mind into the flesh, so I believe it is theoretically possible to not know you're controlling a flesh avatar. For all intents and purposes, that IS your body, and it feels like it. You experience the whole spectrum of physical sensations, and nothing seems to be different from your actual body (part of the reason the Doctor had so much trouble figuring it out).
Finally, I'm sorry Jen, but I'm going to have to agree with Max on his note under "The Wedding of River Song". She does remember him, just not very well. She comes back for him when he stops to fight off the silence and saves him, then makes a quip about having a drink and getting married.
Anyway, feel free to argue or discuss, and I'd be happy to reply (just send me something on Facebook, as I don't believe I'm getting notifications on your replies).
Also, I would have no problem talking through River timeline theory with you if you want, because for some weird reason, I like making my brain hurt thinking about that.
ReplyDeleteRiver had to know who her parents are theoretically before she became Mels and went to go live with them as they grew up. Her going was to basically have them raise her/possibly meet the Doctor. It also could have been orders of the Silence, or flipwise that entire life was her hiding from the Silence since she got away from them at the end of Day of the Moon. I might even say she has known them from the start as there was a picture of Amy holding Melody in the orphanage in FL where they were keeping River.
ReplyDeleteIf she had turned into the young Mels as her second regeneration (she has done it before, her young self says as she was dying in NYC from Amy's gunshot wound so she must have had more than one form before that, but we don't know if Mels was her next regeneration after the freckled little girl or a subsequent one) I am not sure, there is a firm period of time from 1970 to the mid 1980's or early 1990's that are completely blank in River's timeline. I personally hold the canon that she somehow runs into older Amy and Rory in NYC (such a coincidence that city I wouldn't be surprised if that's intentional, both Amy, Rory and River are all in the same city in 1970) and they live together as a family, and it's them that tell her to go find them in Britain. However that is only my personal head canon. Maybe we'll get some filler in the 50th anniversary I'm not quite sure the Ponds (older Ponds, non Karen and Arthur) are completely out of the picture.
The period of time after 'Lets Kill Hitler' is when she recovers at the hospital/mental ward and then presumably begins her schooling in learning about the Doctor and archeology. We are then showed after she graduated and was a Doctor (or professor) herself, is when the Silence caught up with her and kidnapped her to be put into the suit to kill the Doctor, which quite frankly was automated anyway, couldn't they have gotten anyone? (guh).
All the previous River's we've seen have been post the Doctor's "death" and their marriage. It's the order of which River you get after that is what's tricky, though she intentionally seems to muddle with things and intentionally make it seem like she doesn't know certain things that have occurred, even though she knew and let on that she didn't. She knows who Amy is in 'The Time of Angels', as that occurs rather late in her timeline, though that is the first time Amy, at age 23, meets her.
As I said in the other post, I'm going to be chewing through the series so I can hopefully be of some use (if that use is only for you guys to have someone else to bounce ideas off of, I'm fine with that), so as I continue to watch, I'll continue to make notes and compare with you guys. Off the top of my head, I do believe (and here we go with the perspectives and timelines again) that I heard her say at one point that she didn't know she'd be a professor, which would have put her before the Doctor's "death" (don't remember which episode, but I'll let you know when I get to it). I'm going to get this straight if I have to watch the series 10 more times.
DeleteI believe that was her flat out lying to be a tease unless it was in 'Let's Kill Hitler' because she wasn't River yet. I feel ALL of River's appearances as Alex Kingston outside of 'Let's Kill Hitler' are all after they were married (her time) thus during her incarceration or release after 5 years sentence.
Delete"Amy, this is Professor River Song"
Delete"OOooh I'm going to be a Professor am I?"
*Doctor slaps his head*
"Spoilers!"
It's Flesh and Stone.
There we go! Well, that could be her being genuinely surprised, as she is just being pardoned as of Flesh and Stone and has not technically gone to become a Professor yet as she was when leading the Library expedition.
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